“It’s so lovely to see a film that’s cinema,” the Oscar-winning Mexican filmmaker Guillermo del Toro gushed to Jacques Audiard, the French director of Emilia Pérez, throughout a dialog following an overflow screening of Audiard’s new Netflix movie. The extremely unconventional musical set is in Mexico and was performed for members of the Administrators Guild of America on Wednesday evening on the DGA Theater in Los Angeles. Del Toro stated of Audiard to the viewers, “I feel he’s probably the most wonderful filmmakers alive immediately.”
A full transcript of the dialog seems beneath.
DEL TORO Properly, I wish to begin by saying I’m not a dispassionate observer as a result of I’ve been a part of two juries — one in Cannes, one in Venice — that gave Jacques the Palme d’Or and finest director. So that is how I really feel about him: I feel he’s probably the most wonderful filmmakers alive immediately. It’s a privilege to be right here.
AUDIARD You’re making me blush.
DEL TORO I feel that in a lot of your films, there may be an vitality that’s profoundly emotional, however that results in type of this irreconcilable battle between what we wish to be and the world, and that conflict is each very romantic and really dramatic.
AUDIARD That’s evaluation. Typically within the movies I make, there’s this theme of the double life, or extra exactly, the selection of life, the price of a life. In different phrases, what number of lives does one have the appropriate to reside? And the way a lot does it value to reside these lives? The primary life, we all know how a lot it prices, it’s the life that we’re dwelling. However what if you wish to reside a second life? How a lot does that value? I feel it’s going to be dearer, extra expensive. That’s a recurrent theme. And so I feel the tensions that you just’re seeing must do with that passage from the primary to the second life.
DEL TORO This film got here nominally out of a passage in a novel, or that was the beginning level. What precisely was that seed that provoked you saying, “That is what I’m going to do”?
AUDIARD I’ve a pal who’s a novelist and he often sends me his books, and I learn them. And on this case, he despatched me a novel known as Pay attention. I used to be studying it and across the sixth or seventh chapter — I couldn’t inform you precisely the place, but it surely was across the center of the guide — out of the blue, the lead character of the novel, who’s a lawyer, whose nationality I couldn’t actually inform you — I don’t keep in mind, however I feel he’s Mexican of Polish origin, one thing uncommon like that — meets a narco boss, a gang boss, who asks him to assist him transition. I begin turning the pages. I’m actually form of shook up, excited by it, ready to see if the creator goes to observe up, and to my shock, he doesn’t. He doesn’t proceed that story. So the following day, I name him up and I say, “Boris, are you going to do something with this character?” The character was known as El Flaco, the Skinny Man, which he’s in no way, because it occurs. And Boris tells me he’s not going to, so I stole the concept and ran with it.
DEL TORO Now, once you speak about what number of lives you’ll be able to have and what’s the price of the lives, I keep in mind significantly watching Deep Finish. Two films coexisted — one which was a thriller and the opposite one which was a film that documented immigration — in two tones. However on this film, you have got the gangster that goes by surgical procedure, which may very well be Darkish Passage or a musical, and a thriller and a melodrama or an opera, as a result of I feel the film could be very operatic, coexisting on the identical time. And balancing that, tonally, is really, it appears, very natural for you. Are you able to speak a little bit bit about the way it got here to you to make it a musical and why? And I’ve a idea, however I gained’t categorical it.
AUDIARD I’m going to attempt to inform you what occurred, the historical past of this concept, with out boring anybody or overwhelming the interpreter. I feel what it’s, is I actually like the concept of the paradox right here. You’ve got this particular person coming from hyper-virility, hyper-machismo, hyper-patriarchy, no matter you wish to name it, who’s shifting towards femininity. I feel that could be a very attention-grabbing paradox to take care of. So this goes again a good distance, about four-and-a-half years, to lockdown. I wrote the therapy in 28 days, 28 pages, and what I wrote was a libretto. I don’t know what came visiting me, however I wrote a libretto for an opera, and I divided it into acts. It consisted of tableaus somewhat than scenes. The characters have been archetypal, that they had little or no psychology. It was extra like emotions in movement. And this was all very curious to me. So the concept of the musical comes from opera. However on the identical time that this operatic kind took form, I had the sensation that the style of the movie must change on a regular basis, that we’d go from telenovela to narco-thriller, no matter you need. And maybe this alteration has to do with representing the transition that the protagonist goes by, possibly. However I feel that particularly intuitively, I knew that I’d shoot in a studio. And that we would want to have these modifications to press down a rhythm onto the movie and keep away from the potential static nature of the studio.
DEL TORO It’s very clear to precise emotion by a track. And I, as a Mexican, adore melodrama and adore the telenovela, the pitch of melodrama. And I feel singing about it makes it completely extra accessible. However you have got by no means been afraid of emotion being heightened. [Midnight Cowboy director John] Schlesinger stated, “After I went to New York, I used to be not New York the best way an American did.” And for me, your view of Mexico was hypnotic and delightful for that. So tonally, it permits for the characters to begin singing. It permits for all these enormous feelings. And I’m wondering for those who fell in love with Mexico your self once you visited?
AUDIARD I first went to Mexico about 40 years in the past, to the area of Jalapa, the place I had a pal. And I traveled north, south, west. It was simple. On the time, I feel there was just a bit little bit of corruption, a form of tropical vacationer corruption. Since then, I feel there have been large modifications, and that saddens me. However I really like Mexico. We have been simply in Morelia. It was elegant. The music was unbelievable. The extent of musicality on the street is unbelievable there. And now it’s going to be the celebration of the Day of the Lifeless. I feel that’s a complete different degree. I don’t know if Emilia Pérez is an effective reflection of Mexican tradition, as a result of we shot the entire thing in Paris in a studio. In a way, we introduced Mexico to us — and it’s Virginie Montel, the artwork director of the movie, who actually did plenty of that work. However what was it that you just needed me to speak about, Guillermo?
DEL TORO No, I feel that to be truthful is to not be realist, not—
AUDIARD Sorry, Guillermo. I didn’t end what I meant to say. I went to Mexico three or 4 instances with my workforce. We did location scouting. We did some casting. And I feel it was on the finish of the third go to that I spotted that if I labored in these actual places, I’d keep caught to the bottom. You see, I had all these photos in my head, and these photos weren’t going to suit on the streets of Mexico, within the interiors of Mexico. I wanted an even bigger device of stylization. And in a way, that’s regular, as a result of provided that the unique thought was for an opera, what’s nearer to the opera stage than the studio soundstage?
DEL TORO And I don’t suppose Gene Kelly was in Paris in An American in Paris, so that you’re okay! However actually, what I feel is required for the tone to exist, the film must exist in a cinematic actuality, and that it does. You begin with a choreography that’s extra historically fluid, and little by little the film itself, its rhythms, the usage of the sunshine and the digital camera each turn into musical, despite the fact that they don’t seem to be musical moments. The loading of the weapons, the child driving by the streets with the bicycle. It turns into a musical not simply as a kind. And it’s so smart, the usage of gentle and all this. It’s so nice to see cinema. It’s so lovely to see a film that’s cinema. And no person says cinema just like the French. It sounds very nice.
AUDIARD You’re very used to this. However for me, this was my first movie shot totally in a studio. Right here in Hollywood, I feel you have got an awesome tradition of the musical, you know the way to do it. However in France, we actually don’t have that tradition. We come from a way more realist strategy. I imply, individuals will point out Jacques Demy and Christophe Honoré, however total it’s not comparable. So we needed to study as we went, as we labored with our choreographer, Damien Jalet. And I discovered an amazing quantity of stuff that I didn’t know earlier than. As an example, you talked about the primary market scene [“El Alegato”]. My fear there, and I’m certain you’ll perceive this as a result of we’re all skilled right here: working within the studio, what are you going to gentle and the way costly is that going to be? I got here to know that I may get round that with the dancers and the choreography. There’s a pun in French that will get to this: it’s décor, which is each decor as within the set and le-corps, and within the our bodies. And so for those who can’t gentle 250 meters again, what I understood is that I may fill within the depth with individuals, with individuals dancing. I may fill the sphere with that and have a shifting cellular depth.
DEL TORO The stylization of the moments that turn into extra intimate, fading the sunshine and having the 2 characters speaking alone within the restaurant, within the darkness; the finale, when they’re led by the machine weapons and drive into the darkish — these are additionally operatic choices which are additionally cinematic choices. They’re not stage-bound. And the world itself turns into very, very musical.
AUDIARD You realize what? I’m wondering if I didn’t do Emilia Pérez because of this. And I’m going to depart the musical now and return to opera as a result of I am going to the opera — I really like opera. And I’m wondering if maybe the entire venture of Emilia Pérez for me was as a result of I needed to see the operas that I don’t see. Which is to say, there’s little or no up to date opera repertory immediately. And I feel, maybe, with Emilia Pérez, I needed to fill in that hole. Now, when it comes to the belongings you’re mentioning? A lot of options. And that’s a really ugly phrase. There’s plenty of operatic stylization. Stylization is operatic. The DNA of opera is stylization.
DEL TORO Talking of opera, there are three characters — truly 4 characters — every of them restricted and type of prisoners of various circumstances, that get to flee that actuality, in a technique or one other, after which crush towards that actuality. However very totally different actors, very totally different actresses, all of them. And the casting, basic of these devices, was extremely smart. And I would love you to speak about it a little bit.
AUDIARD Earlier, I used to be telling you concerning the therapy and the primary model of the screenplay. I don’t find out about you, however I write plenty of totally different variations. And as much as the third or fourth model, I had gotten the age of the feminine characters incorrect, and I wasn’t discovering the individuals to play these roles. I noticed numerous actresses in Mexico, I met trans actresses, but it surely merely wasn’t working. After which I don’t keep in mind precisely the way it took place, however in a really brief time frame, I met Karla Sofía Gascón, who by circumstances that will be laborious to explain, was in Mexico. After which I met Zoe [Saldaña] on Zoom, and one thing appeared very clearly to me. And people actresses dictated the ages of the characters. They confirmed me that I used to be incorrect. As a result of for those who’re a younger lady of 25, you don’t have any historical past, you don’t have a narrative. You’ve got issues along with your ambitions, however simply wait, it’s going to work out. Should you’re a girl of 40, nevertheless, and also you’re having these difficulties, and if on prime of that you just’re blended race, effectively, issues is perhaps actually sophisticated. So it was the actresses who gave me the ages of their characters, who confirmed me that I’d made a mistake. And the identical is true with the character of Epifania, with Adriana Paz.
DEL TORO We have been watching the film and the second the place we reached the understanding that it was an opera was not a second with music; it was the balcony scene the place it says, “Do you actually have a knife in your bag?” What I really like is that in permitting that course of to dictate to you and listening — as a result of administrators not solely speak, they need to pay attention — you discovered a mezzo-soprano, a coloratura, a soprano. Their voices — and I’m not speaking about their voices, however their presence — introduced totally different devices that have been rather more attention-grabbing. And I’m wondering if this affected the writing of the songs then.
AUDIARD Not too long ago, I got here throughout some variations of the music that have been Paleolithic, and that brings a right away reply to your query. As a result of the distinction between the demos from the start of the method, the demos from the center of the method, and the demos from after the casting was carried out? It’s evening and day. It’s simply an enormous change. Now, the musical basis might stay, the melody is perhaps the identical, however the envelope modified totally by the casting. I’m not going to enter into the final ritual of flattery now of, “Oh, it’s so marvelous.” “They’re so nice.” However I did have the acute good luck of working with actresses who’ve such totally different skills. It’s even tough to explain their variations. However Karla Sofia has nothing to do with Zoe, like Zoe has nothing to do with Adriana, who has nothing to do with Selena [Gomez]. And it was such a pleasure to work on this fixed pressure of figuring that out. I’m not such as you. I don’t communicate your language. In the case of languages, I’m a loser. I don’t communicate English, I don’t communicate Spanish, so on. However each morning once I went to work, I had to determine how you can communicate Karla Sofia, how you can communicate Selena, how you can communicate Zoe, these vernacular languages, and it was so fascinating. It’s actually a fabulous factor when you have got earlier than you a scene that’s sung and danced. Usually, you pay to see such a present, and now I used to be being paid to look at that.
DEL TORO I’ve been given the sign. I simply wish to say that fairly often, we come to those locations, to theaters, hoping to see movie. And I feel we’re very, very lucky that we noticed movie tonight. So, thanks very a lot.